sensitive thread: ethnicity and Nightfall

[felinette]

Originally Posted by Chorus

Pretending that the almost total absence of dark-skinned characters in a game based on African regions is not at all strange strikes me as a little naive.

Actually, Chorus, I think those that expected everyone (or a fair number of players) to create dark-skinned characters were the naive ones. As many people have said in the thread, they don't consider the setting all that much when creating their characters. This was also true of Tyria and Cantha. Most people have stated that they either want a character that approximates them (or how they'd like to look), or a character they find attractive, which is personal taste, nothing more.

As for me, I don't see GW as a role-playing game, so I don't consider setting or role (beyond profession) when creating a character. My Elonian characters are white. I had a black Canthan for a while, but unfortunately for her, she was a necro, and try as I might, I just can't get into playing a necro. When I created her, I chose the dark-skin because she looked HOT. If I'd considered the setting, I wouldn't have created her that way. But I didn't, because I never do when creating GW characters.

[Aurea]

Originally Posted by felinette

Actually, Chorus, I think those that expected everyone (or a fair number of players) to create dark-skinned characters were the naive ones. As many people have said in the thread, they don't consider the setting all that much when creating their characters. This was also true of Tyria and Cantha. Most people have stated that they either want a character that approximates them (or how they'd like to look), or a character they find attractive, which is personal taste, nothing more.

As for me, I don't see GW as a role-playing game, so I don't consider setting or role (beyond profession) when creating a character. My Elonian characters are white. I had a black Canthan for a while, but unfortunately for her, she was a necro, and try as I might, I just can't get into playing a necro. When I created her, I chose the dark-skin because she looked HOT. If I'd considered the setting, I wouldn't have created her that way. But I didn't, because I never do when creating GW characters.

whatever!!!!

[Azgalon]

One can assume that the majority of the kids that are playing, are white.

Thus, the influx of white characters.

If the game had a bigger playerbase with colored youngsters (the majority, 70 % or more), i am certain we would see more colored characters, simple as that.

[Chorus]

Originally Posted by felinette

Actually, Chorus, I think those that expected everyone (or a fair number of players) to create dark-skinned characters were the naive ones. As many people have said in the thread, they don't consider the setting all that much when creating their characters. This was also true of Tyria and Cantha. Most people have stated that they either want a character that approximates them (or how they'd like to look), or a character they find attractive, which is personal taste, nothing more.

If they didn't consider the setting all that much (and I sincerely doubt that's true, considering there was no shortage of Asian-looking characters in Factions, where it is perfectly possible to create a non-Asian appearance for any class), it still should have come out with an even balance of skin colours represented. It hasn't. And that would indicate there's more to it than just "Oh, I didn't consider the setting".

Like I said, I wouldn't necessarily characterise that as racism. But I think there's a definite level of widespread discomfort there, judging by some of the responses in this thread where people have indicated they'd be uncomfortable with a darker-skinned character, and the defensive responses to attacks that weren't made.

[Kuldebar]

Originally Posted by felinette

Actually, Chorus, I think those that expected everyone (or a fair number of players) to create dark-skinned characters were the naive ones. As many people have said in the thread, they don't consider the setting all that much when creating their characters. This was also true of Tyria and Cantha. Most people have stated that they either want a character that approximates them (or how they'd like to look), or a character they find attractive, which is personal taste, nothing more.

As for me, I don't see GW as a role-playing game, so I don't consider setting or role (beyond profession) when creating a character. My Elonian characters are white. I had a black Canthan for a while, but unfortunately for her, she was a necro, and try as I might, I just can't get into playing a necro. When I created her, I chose the dark-skin because she looked HOT. If I'd considered the setting, I wouldn't have created her that way. But I didn't, because I never do when creating GW characters.

Good stuff, Feline.

My feeling is that much is made about choices with little regard to the fact that it's the freedom to choose that's important. We hear people talk about diversity while at the same time demanding that people comply to a standard that attempts to "equalize" away any variety or uniqueness.

Ultimately, it is the labels that people get hung up which become the limiting factor.

By embracing the labels and choosing to make the labels the focus in human interactions, we essentially keep the barriers in place...artificial constructs that they are. A delusion can be as self limiting as a prison wall.

[Juiced]

I try to balance between making my character look like myself and adjusting to the theme. I don't really care for skin color, as long as the hair and facial expression resemble, next to the length. I have an 'Asian' looking Asassin and Ritualist, now I have an African looking Paragon, although I didn't pick the darkest skin colour, because details were hard to see. I think people should decide for themself what they want, if u don't want to follow the theme be my guest, if u don't want to make a char that looks like u or has the same sex, be my guest, as long as u enjoy it

[LoverOfJoy]

Originally Posted by Ashin

Well perhaps disturbing is a strong word. But let me re-iterate something that you guys seem to be missing from my post: in Factions there was no shortage of Asian characters.

So the argument that ~ "white ppl like to make white characters" has already been proven insufficient. It's more specifically the case that ~ "white ppl are uncomfortable playing a black character." Likewise the argument that ~"most ppl like to play characters that resemble them" is not really valid because we know how many boys play female characters, etc.

So actually it might be more fair to say something like "ppl make characters that reflect what they want to see".. and THAT's when it becomes a little curious to note that maybe 1 in 20 characters in Elona, at most, are actually dark skinned.

Again please understand that there is no agenda here so there is no need to be dismissive or defensive about it. But I do find it noteworthy.

I haven't read the whole thread yet so I apologize if this is a repeat but I had to respond to this particular comment.

I don't have factions but I have seen factions players come onto prophecies and what I noticed was this: there are more asian characters but they are much more likely to be asian when assasins than when they are ritualists.

So here's my guess. People tend to make people like how they'd picture themselves as a particular character. The default is their own skin color but particular professions may cause a shift IF the stereotype is strong enough.

For instance, when I created my ranger, I made him the way I'd picture myself at my peak. Lean, medium height, my complexion, brown hair, etc. When I created my necro, I made him short, funky hair, and with quite pale skin. When I created my warrior, I made him super huge, my complexion, army crew cut, etc.

I've noticed that there seems to be less female warriors than males. There seem to be less male monks than females. Because of stereotypes in the media, the huge strong male warrior is embedded in our minds (usually white or black...not a lot of huge asians). When most people picture an evil necromancer they rarely picture a black person (at least that's my impression).

My guess is that assassins in the media were so strongly tied to asians that when we picture ourselves as assassins we can actually picture ourselves as asians. Perhaps the dress and location and everything was so strong in factions that more people pictured themselves in that world as asian.

My brief time on the prerelease event of nightfall didn't totally immerse me in a world where I just only pictured seeing black people. It just wasn't a powerful enough immersion for me to expect to see black characters everywhere. I actually created a darker skin person (probably more east indies than african) because that's more what I expected when I read about the game and saw a handful of screenshots. But had I gone in and played a bit without knowing anything I probably would have created my characters as white as the default. It just didn't scream out African themed to me.

Maybe it's just that I've seen enough movies in the desert with white folk. Maybe I just haven't seen enough movies with black people in these areas. But I'm guessing that it just isn't powerful enough for most people to leave the default.

What little I've seen of factions just SCREAMS asian. What little I've seen of Nightfall gives a bit of a feel of Africa...and a bit of a feel of the middle east... and a bit of a feel of India... and a bit of a feel of... you get the idea. It's just too eclectic to make me feel out of place as any one race. Even the clothes doesn't make me feel african.

Don't get me wrong. I like the costumes. I like the flora and the buildings. I think the game is beautiful from what I've seen so far. It just doesn't pull me toward a particular ethnicity.

[Sunbane]

My first GW char ever (Tyrian) was black, and I now have a 50% mix of darker skinned and lighter skinned ones (the one in my avatar pic is one of my dark skinned ones). It wasn't planned that way - it just happened. When I create a character, I try to come up with something that feels like a person I would like to play.

None of my characters look like me. I've never been interested in trying to achieve that. For me the fun of an RPG type game, is to be something other than my mundane self.

[Zamyle]

When I think of a dervish, I think strong, devoted, and an aura of power. When I created my dervish, I created a severe looking black man with a bound beard. Thats the face that spoke to me when I created my dervish.

I wanted a male ranger, just because thats what I picture in my head when I think ranger. All the faces/hair/etc for male rangers just didn't seem like rangers too me. So I had to create a female ranger, because IG male rangers just didn't seem like real rangers to me.

I read the description of the class and a base framework appears in my head and takes form reading more of the description. I then look at the available options and fit it the best I can. Thats my avator development process.

I choose not to believe that the dominance of lighter skinned avators in GWN is due to some dislike of dark skin avators. It just happens to be the end result of the thought process that goes into creating most avators.

[felinette]

Originally Posted by Chorus

If they didn't consider the setting all that much (and I sincerely doubt that's true, considering there was no shortage of Asian-looking characters in Factions, where it is perfectly possible to create a non-Asian appearance for any class), it still should have come out with an even balance of skin colours represented.

Why? There wasn't a balance in Tyria and Cantha, so why are you expecting it in Elona?

Like I said, I wouldn't necessarily characterise that as racism. But I think there's a definite level of widespread discomfort there, judging by some of the responses in this thread where people have indicated they'd be uncomfortable with a darker-skinned character

Well, yeah, anyone who says they'd be uncomfortable making a dark-skinned character needs to ask themself why. And for sure there are folks out there who didn't create a dark-skinned character because they simply didn't want to play someone dark-skinned. But most people haven't said that.

Maybe people are getting defensive because they feel like they're being told what should be important to them when creating characters. I get irritated when someone tells me I must have <x> on my skillbar or that I'm a noob if I do such-and-such. I don't like people pushing their idea of how the game should be played onto me, and that includes character creation.

Originally Posted by Sunbane

None of my characters look like me.

Mine either. They're all thinner, younger, and depending on the profession, have bigger boobs! LOL.